NEED OF THE HOUR
REAL PEOPLE POWER
Sarvodaya leader Dr. A. T. Ariyaratne speaks exclusively to Suresh Ginige
about eradicating poverty, empowering the people and sharing power.

Q: What are the most pressing issues facing the country today?

A: Number one is poverty. The other is violence – whether it is isolated incidents of violence, or organised violence on the war front. These are the two main issues.

Q: Has poverty increased or decreased over the last few years? How successful have our poverty-alleviation programmes been?

A: Poverty is definitely on the rise. There is no doubt about it. I think even the official surveyors accept it. Speaking from my own experience, we are helping around 16,000 families – and in every village, around 20 per cent are below the poverty line.

Today, much of our country’s foreign exchange is being remitted by poor, ignorant, illiterate workers engaged in veritable slave labour in the Middle East. Firstly, this is immoral; secondly, the manner in which that money is being spent is a crime. Consider many garment-industry workers: they have no toilets and no food. There are some places where these facilities are provided; but in most places, these people who do so much for the country are not looked after properly. In a sense, we really can’t blame the people for the number of abortions that take place!

Q: In your view, what more can be done to help the poor in Sri Lanka?

A: There has to be the political will and determination on the part of our planners to create a no-poverty society. However, if their main objective is to create an affluent society, that is a terrible mistake. Currently, they are trying to create an affluent society without thinking of eradicating poverty. When you aim for affluence, those who want to make money – those who want to do business purely for profit – don’t mind buying and selling armaments; they don’t even mind being corrupt!

When millions and millions of rupees are being spent by a few people, corruption and wastage set in. So much is defrauded and we don’t know what happens to the money. On the other hand, if poor people are taken into consideration and given an opportunity to participate in creating wealth – as well as have an equitable share in it – then, the situation can change.

We should educate the people about our first objective, which is to eradicate poverty – this can be done in a few years, in my opinion. When we try to eradicate poverty and implement programmes with the participation of the poor, the message goes out to them that we should get used to a simple lifestyle and not live beyond our means.

For this, leaders should set an example – then, others will do the same. See how people of affluence patronise hotels and celebrate the birthdays of their children, spending thousands of rupees per person. This could anger the poorer sections of society. They may think: “This is our society – although we do all this menial work, we don’t have two square meals a day…” – so, rich people should try to set an example by adopting simpler lifestyles.

Look at the country, the community and the people as a whole – and take into consideration the poor and the suffering. Now, the private sector advertises whenever it makes profits, which usually run into billions of rupees, in order to attract more shareholders. But if we say that we have recovered whatever we spent, have looked after our staff – and that our profits are very low, but we have served the nation – that would, to me, be real social entrepreneurship. But unfortunately, neither the Government nor the private sector is interested in eradicating poverty.

Q: Is it possible to develop Sri Lanka without peace? In other words, to what extent can we achieve economic prosperity whilst we are engaged in military conflict?

A: You can’t – that’s why peace is essential! To a certain extent, some people can become prosperous despite – and sometimes because – of the war; but poor people – all of them, without any exception – will become more degenerate and malnourished, enjoy less education and less social welfare. So, the war must come to an end.

IMPLEMENT THE LAW! Certain individuals have been discovered stealing property and money, but are still occupying their positions. Why is that? Take away everything! That is the way to do it. If there is a law, implement it…

Q: The Government seems to be seeking a military solution to the conflict. Do you believe that this is a viable route?

A: Well, that is what the Government thinks. To begin with, you have to understand that all of us human beings are subject to the same kind of cosmic laws. There is no distinction between a Sinhalese, Tamil or Muslim.

Terrorism requires a military response, the forces for which have to be supplied by the Government. But this has to be done according to international law. This is a law that all civilised countries have accepted. So, within that framework, the war can be prosecuted. Of course, I feel very sorry for the people dying on this side or that, but that is part of the Government’s duty: to defend the people against terrorism. The problem is that international law is often violated.

Q: How serious do you feel are the issues of corruption, bribery and nepotism in present-day Sri Lanka? What impact are they having on this country?

A: These three issues are institutionalised. Ask the man on the street – to get anything done, you have to offer a bribe. Most of the people are spoilt; the majority are bad, although there is a minority that is good.

WHAT DEMOCRACY? These days, my friend President Mahinda Rajapaksa and a few others run the country. So, this is not democracy…

Q: What is your assessment of the state of our economy?

A: This is a borrowed economy. The Ministry of Finance and Planning spends all its time writing project proposals to get more money from the WB or the ADB – and if not, from private sources. Now, they are trying to obtain US$ 500 million from private banks – who is going to pay for all this? Not the ministers and MPs. It is you and I, the ordinary people.

This is also a dependent economy. For instance, the Dalai Lama is not welcome here for fear of offending China. Such a country can never develop. I don’t believe that we have a strong economy. I will say that we have a good economy if our people have enough to eat – also, if they can buy their necessities, but not at the exorbitant prices we pay now.

Q: All Sri Lankans, particularly the poor, have been greatly affected by the ever-increasing cost of living. What do you feel is the cause of this high inflation and what can be done to remedy this?

A: Firstly, defence expenditure must be reduced to an absolute minimum. The war must end. Secondly, all our people – beginning at the top – must be taught to lead simple lives. Thirdly, the private sector must be told to help reduce the cost of living. It is fine to make profits, but not to the extent that they are doing now. Then, you can get banks involved in development – which is not the case at the moment. After all, the only thing that the poor had was the cooperative movement – but that, too, became politicised and no longer exists.

Q: Some commentators claim that Sri Lanka is now a failed state, or that we’re nearly there. Would you agree or disagree with this assessment – and why?

A: It is neither true nor false. It is not true, because there are still institutions that are working well. Recently, I read a severe attack on the Government in the newspapers. So, we can’t say that there is no freedom of speech. On the other hand, law and order no longer hold sway – so, in a sense, that statement is true.   

REAL PROFITS If we say that we have recovered whatever we spent, have looked after our staff – and that our profits are very low, but we have served the nation – that would, to me, be real social entrepreneurship…

Q: How best can we balance our need for foreign aid with maintaining independence in our internal affairs?

A: We must become self-sufficient in food. Whatever the globalists say, let us produce our own food. We can earn substantial foreign exchange by exporting food and food products.

But, of course, because we have made a mess of matters over the past 40 years or so. Now, we depend on foreign aid and this cannot be discontinued overnight. Our budget makers need it – every time they formulate fiscal policy, they go looking for foreign aid. That is their dependent nature: they have been born into and bred within the British model. But we must try and minimise future borrowings. 

BORROWED ECONOMY’ This is a borrowed economy. The Ministry of Finance and Planning spends all its time writing project proposals to get more money from the WB or the ADB – and if not, from private sources. Now, they are trying to obtain US$ 500 million from private banks – who is going to pay for all this? Not the ministers and MPs. It is you and I, the ordinary people…

Q: What is your vision for Sri Lanka?

A: Firstly, there must be no poverty. Then, we must achieve the lowest crime rate in the world and the least alcoholism. Presently, we are the largest per capita drinkers in the world!

 The interviewee is Founder-President of the Sarvodaya Shramadana Movement.